CED VideoDisc and Player Discussion

[owenatverrs]

Now I love CED and I am a BIG fan, but I have to say that I love Laserdisc a lot more. What about you? Why?

[RT9342]

Yeah, I'll admit - I actually don't like CED that much, except that the technology is very interesting (I had once convinced myself that these were optical and that it is impossible to reproduce video with a stylus-read disc...until I opened my player to "clean the lens" since it was skipping a lot and was shocked to find a stylus!) - also I can find CED discs a LOT cheaper than any other format. Still my old MCA DiscoVision player (PR-7820) is really cool too - especially with the plexiglass window on the lid, the "upside-down" loading, the laser which you can see scanning the disc as it plays, and the coolest thing (in my opinion): the sliding spindle (since the PR-7820 has a stationary laser pickup). And its picture quality blows away CEDs (except for those old DiscoVision discs). Right now, I'm watching CEDs a lot, because my PR-7820 got out of alignment and I need to have it recalibrated - once I have it working again, I may sort of forget about CEDs for a while, as I did for several years until recently.

[Caroline]

CED has many disadvantages, the whole system is inferior to Laserdisc.
The picture quality is weaker, a stylus isnt lasting as long as a laser unit etc. It is very difficult to find CED players in Europe ( exception : UK ),
and if you want to use them here, you have to buy a 110/220V transformer. ( The UK title videolibrary is very thin )

But it has some advantages too.
The cover are very nice and almos undestructable.
Rare movies, which are extremely expensive ( at least the Playboy Video Magazines and the Rainbow Brite movies here in Europe ) on VHS, are
cheap on CED.

And the whole CED system is very interesting, technically.

[Red October]

Asside from the much-loved 400-series players, CED is roundly inferior to most video systems in one way or another. Its quality is about as good as lowband Betamax (not SuperBeta), but it cannot record. There is space for a lot of cover art, but the disks are heavy. Then again, unlike Laserdisc, it is more difficult to severely damage a CED. The 400-series players are quite capable beasts and showcase what it could have been. While the video quality is nowhere near that of LD, SuperBeta, SVHS or ED Beta, there are other compelling reasons, especially those that come from disk-based formats.

All that said, though, it is technically interesting and still perfectly servicable as a video format for the consumer. I love the way it works, it's just such an interesting concept.

[krbsforty]

I like both CED & Laserdisc, but I would have to say that I like CED better. The reason why is because it is a very obscure format, and I like to do things that not many people do. There seem to be more people familiar with Laserdisc than CED, and I enjoy doing things are different than what every one else is doing. I also like the artwork on the caddies, and the interesting loading mechanism of CED, which you do not see on anything else. They also have excellent picture & sound quality.
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[Raintree]

Good reason to like CED.

Having grown up with both in the home, and also Beta, VHS, on any sort of TV you could imagine, LD quality beats CED, but CED is as good as Beta 1, and that's no slouch. And then if you're using a CRT, a darn good picture. One thing that affected resolution with LD is when they were letterboxed, and if you had a way to zoom that. Usually the resolution suffered then, but who would zoom letterbox unless your TV was widescreen?

Another good reason to have CED even if you have LD, is that there's between 100 to 200 titles on CED not available on US released LDs. Good movies too, like Taps, The Final Terror, He Knows You're Alone, etc.

[SelectaVision420]

i love ced's because nothing compares to the audio quality, i have my stereo player hooked into the auxiliary in on my record player and it sounds better than standard television. i have a few discs where the video will drop for a split second, but the audio remains!
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[Beetlescott]

The Truth is, CEDs are very addictive, tons of fun to collect. and I have met some of the nicest people on Earth will enjoying my CED collection! I have a Laser Disc player, and some movies, but I think the CED is unique, There is nothing like it, it stands along. Sure there are quirks, but that's true with all formats. My grandson put it in perspective once when he said, "Laser Discs are just big DVDs" To be honest, In my opinion, Laser discs aren't unique, like the wonderful world of CEDs
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[kitchensynch]

But then again, they aren't Phonovision!

(antiques joke for you)

[Beetlescott]

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[Raintree]

Youngsters would not know this, but it would probably be more accurately said that DVDs look like small Laserdiscs, which is in a way what they are.

The difference partly being DVDs recorded in digital format, where the LD is recorded in analog composite format.

[ketonic_dude]

Why does everyone always compare CED's to Laserdisc. That's like comparing apples to oranges. They are nothing alike other than they both use discs. If your going to make a comparison to laserdisc please use DVD or Blu-ray since they are the same type of system. If nothing else please compare CED to VHS or even 8mm. There is really nothing like CED to compare it to unless you look at VHD. Of course laserdisc is going to be superior to CED as it's technology was developed after CED, even though laserdisc hit the market first. But if the title is just asking which you prefer then that would make more sense. Of course I prefer CED over laserdisc, for a number of reasons. First off, CED is far cheaper to acquire a nice collection over laserdisc. Even the more expensive CED's, Zombie, TCM, etc. only run about $50 now days. With the exception of A Walk Through the Universe. But you look at laserdisc and titles like The Matrix and Southpark, which can be had on VHS for pennies are upwards of $80-$100 on laserdisc. Laserdiscs are also much more likely to get scratched as you actually have to handle the exposed disc. Laserdisc also comes in cardboard sleeves vs. the much more durable plastic caddys of CED. When it comes to players, there really isn't much to go wrong with the CED players other than change a belt or stylus from time to time. I hear of all sorts of problems with laserdisc players, from the drawer not opening, to the laser burning out. Finally, don't even get me started on laser rot. Laserdisc collectors say it's very uncommon but yet on the laserdisc forums that's all I ever read is complaints about rotted discs. I mean glue doesn't last forever, eventually every laserdisc will rot. A solid PVC CED disc should easily last hundreds of years or more. I only with CED had more titles, but that's just one of the things that make it a little more personal than a massive laserdisc collection.

[Raintree]

Typing this in for Dad right now as he wanted to reply to these posts, especially since he's giving away some LD players here. This is what he is telling me, his words exactly:

This is the same problem I've encounteresd on the Laserdisc Forum at LDDB. They have a section for discussion of CED, and there's always the constant comparison. The point of such comparisons is usually to announce how smart the person writing it is because of what they've chosen over the other format being dissed. Typically these "better than" comparisons come from just being ignorant.

As collectors of home video formats, it's absurd to make a comparison that denigrates one format over the other. Certainly they can be compared for quality and features, particularly having come of age at the same time, but to use a comparison as a way to demote one format over another is unwise and not really beneficial. And here I am talking about not just CED and LD, but Beta, VHS, HD-DVD, Blu-ray. As collectors, each format can be appreciated for itself.

Now, in the case of CED and LD, I see them as companion formats and not as competing. Certainly in the marketplace they were not truly in direct competition with each other. It was not LD that caused the demise of CED, but rather videotape since what people wanted was recording ability, and CED was competing for the same market as VHS and Beta. LD was primarily a niche market in the US, for those who wanted to spend a lot and get LD quality, and then be able to tout themselves to their friends.

CED was designed to be a budgetary choice. A home video system that could be bought cheaply, and discs that could be produced inexpensively and with a quality of reproduction that was excellent on the 25" consoles, and other CRT sets of the period. But if a family could only afford one thing, they went with VCR. Who wouldn't? TV shows and sports could be recorded and viewed later. A great benefit!

There are great reasons to collect both CEDs and LDs for fans of vintage formats. They complement each other well. They are both disc systems that use 12" discs even though the method of reading information is different. For the LD fan, there's over 100 good movie titles not available on LD US release that are available on CED. For the CED fan, an LD player can complete certain classic titles that CED might skip, such as:

Halloween, 1978 on LD, not on CED
Friday the 13th, beyond part 5 is on LD (up to a point)
On CED you can get Jaws 1, 2 & 3, and get Jaws 4 on LD.
And so on, there are too many to list.

Sure, there are LDs that command high prices, and that's because they were the last ones released, and in limited release, and so many collectors want these, and it's supply & demand. But in general, many LDs can be had nearly as cheaply as CEDs. Again, it's a matter of what's available and who wants it. I've never seen a copy of Zombie, Texas Chainsaw, or I Spit on Your Grave on LD get anywhere close to the prices they bring on CED.

In regard to functionality, boith systems have their problems and one is not really more prone to breakdown than the other. LD fans tout the solid metal construction of the players, and it's true that Pioneer really went all out to make good players, and the CED fans reply that they can pretty much fix everything themselves, which isn't too far from being true.

For durability, LDs properly produced will last a very long time. The laser-rot issue is one that comes from bad production and it's pretty specific to certain titles. It's always the complaints that get heard above all else, since if all is fine, there's no complaint. And there is no way to scratch them beyond playability from normal handling, unlike the DVD. Certainly the fact that CEDs do wear slightly in normal use is a similar issue.

Most of the prejudices of LD vs CED have to do with what one experiences, and from working in the shop on all types of players, there is not any one type or brand that is really so much worse or so much better than any other. People will say otherwise, and that's because they just happened to get a player that konked out right after they got it.

Now, if one wants to collect an esoteric format with a small number of titles, I'd suggest looking at HD DVD. Only about 900 titles were released. Otherwise, why not just collect the titles you like? Nobody says you must have them all, and it's impossible to watch every single movie ever made in a person's lifetime anyway.

Well, that all he wanted to say, so if you don't like it, don't blame me, contact him. I'm only the typist!

[kitchensynch]

I just missed Phonovision by 36 years...otherwise I'd be modding my Philips GA-212...

My motto is, "If it plays, it stays", although sometimes if it swaps it strays.

[ketonic_dude]

And that's the kind of expertise that we've been missing. It's so great to have you back Rix, even through your son who is a welcome addition. Some excellent points. I would agree with you entirely about how one views each format based on their personal experiences. That would certainly explain why I favor CED over LD. Both excellent formats for their own reasons but in my personal experiences I have not enjoyed laserdisc nearly as much as CED and I'm sure quite a few LD collectors feel the same way about CED. I actually just sold off the majority of my laserdisc collection, my DVL-909 and a little over 400 titles. I only got $300 for all of it with the just the player being worth the majority of that. Course with any format when it's time to sell you get pennies compared to what you have invested in it. I don't even want to think how much I have into my CED collection but if I were ever to sell I can't imagine I'd get much if anything for it. But it's about the hobby and not making profit. I love CED and go a little overboard sometimes but I feel it's worth it. As I'm sure there are LD collectors out there the same way. Hope everyone just enjoys their format rather than argue about them.

[kitchensynch]

Actually, Josh, Laserdisc technology was in development in the mid-late 60s under the ideas and direction of companies like Gauss and Telefunken while CED research dates back to approximately the same timeframe, if not a few years earlier. Videotape equipment was still in the realm of a rich man's toy for home use and I think that video disk playback was seen as a way to bring new forms of home entertainment to consumers at an inexpensive price.

Unfortunately for these camps, the videotape equipment improved so quickly and dramatically, with prices that encouraged home recording and soon Laserdiscs and CEDs were seen as curiosities, and ones that couldn't be used to create content on a whim.

With the introduction of the integrated camera and recorder package (camcorder) the ease of filming without photo processing and with added editing capabilities made the laserdisc a high-quality optical but READ-ONLY format and when Pioneer made digital technology their primary focus they set out to bring these Laserdisc features and more to a CD-sized disc. Tandy Corporation (Radio Shack) has early patents on recordable CDs from the late 80s and the storage technologies for the iPod were created in the late 70s and that that is basically the start of the death of the read-only formats and videotape. Digital memory storage has even rendered some physical media somewhat obsolete as it has improved.

It's not a matter of which is better to me, but which ones I can still watch.

And it is indeed true that a large percentage of commercial releases on any format are basically orphaned and to carry them forward they must be ARCHIVED by their users.

[stdjsb25]

[slatton86]

I personally like laserdisc. I got into CED because I love all tech, but when it comes to collecting the laserdisc will still work years from now. I prefer laserdisc over dvd as well because I don't like compressed video. I have low vision so I sit close and I can see most any imperfection. I have to say though, CED looks good on the wall and when I get a good disc I am quite impressed with the video quality.
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[Beetlescott]

I think, CEDs have proven their ability to last, most of them are 30+ years old. If they are kept in the caddy, they could last another 30. I don't know enough about laser discs, I have only had one a year or so now. I believe my collection will still be working fine in another 30.
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[happycube]

I'm on the LD side, but I wouldn't mind a nice CED setup if it fell in my lap, or preferably near it. (My housemate would have words, however )

Most LD rot comes from particular factories at particular times. 1981-1982 is one of those bad times from both Discovision and Pioneer Japan plants - they're not usually completely unplayable, but they can be annoying especially when there are no other releases of a title from that era. So if you grew up on that era, CED could be better for you.

I do like LD's longer history and variety of titles, though.

If CED had continued, I think player picture quality would have improved - quite possibly the HQ enhancements for VHS would have applied, and digital processing helped VHS a bit in other ways. It'd still be below LD quality, but considerably better than regular VHS. (And sound quality was already pretty good with CX)

Someday I'd like to get (partial?) RF dumps of a few disks and play with a software decoder like I am for LD.

In either case, if you're concerned about practical matters, Blu Ray or streaming usually win. But they're not unique, and that makes them a bit less fun, eh?

In the end, it's about whatever's the most fun for you. So have fun, whichever way you go!

[jeff7624]

I think that both are awesome. CED and laserdiscs were both created before I was. I find it fun to play with technology that is older than I am and see how things from that era influenced what is available now. Even though both CED and laserdiscs are considered obsolete by today's standards they were I am sure quite amazing to people when they were new. I also like the fact that they are pretty cheap and give me something to tinker with. They look quite at home next to my Atari 2600 and Commodore 64 too

[krbsforty]

[Beetlescott]

I am enjoying all these posts! Thanks to Rick Rixrex, I have some Laser Disc Players. He really loves both formats, as I believe his Father sold both in his Video Shop. As I said in a previous post, I enjoy finding a Laser disc for a buck or less. And I love to find one that isn't available on CED. The other day at Half Price Books, I found a stack of rare CEDs and my heart was pounding. I Spit on Your Grave, Visiting Hours... titles that everyone would be excited to find. There is just something about those beautiful hard plastic caddys, especially when they are in great condition. I found a few at another Half Price Books, that were like new!!! It is so exciting to make finds like that. I have my wife looking for CEDs at Estate Sales, she gets about as excited as I do! I have to admit, finding a Laser Disc is good, but finding a stack of Caddys, is like OMG!!! Look waht I found!!! LOL I guess it is To each his own.
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[Dude111]

[tophatsasquatch]

I love CEDs for the nostalgia factor. I don't even have a player anymore but I'll probably always keep a few discs around just to look at.
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[Dude111]

Wow you and me gotta get going then!!!!

I keep saying I want one and even though I have looked a little bit,i havent found one yet......