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Mono Players

 
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Dude111



Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:37 pm    Post subject: Mono Players Reply with quote

Does someone have a list of MONO CED players??

Like SFT-090 is that mono??


Wheather its RCA or some other company could someone post the #s please??

Muchos Gracious Smile
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dumbchemist



Joined: 27 Oct 2011
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Location: Central New York

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go to the CEDmagic.com website and look at the CED museum. It would be tedious; but, you could go through the descriptions of each player and find out the ones that are mono.
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jsdspif



Joined: 16 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've alwyas thought the 75's,90's,100's and 101's were mono and all the 200's on up were stereo?? I've never actually studied it in depth. I know I'm not interested in mono players.
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dumbchemist



Joined: 27 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsdspif wrote:
I've alwyas thought the 75's,90's,100's and 101's were mono and all the 200's on up were stereo?? I've never actually studied it in depth. I know I'm not interested in mono players.


Sounds good for the RCA players. Does not sound good for the non-RCA players (i.e. Hitachi, Realistic, Sears, etc.)
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dmbjunky



Joined: 23 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do all of the monos have the same hookup to the TV? Mine has only a coaxial port. No RCAs.

I'd like to get a stereo with a remote but someone offered me a very nice mono Zenith and I'm leaning toward picking it up because you don't see them too often.
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dumbchemist



Joined: 27 Oct 2011
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Location: Central New York

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmbjunky wrote:
Do all of the monos have the same hookup to the TV? Mine has only a coaxial port. No RCAs.

I'd like to get a stereo with a remote but someone offered me a very nice mono Zenith and I'm leaning toward picking it up because you don't see them too often.


All the players (that I know of) have RF jacks which also includes the players with RCA jacks. Of the 396 disks I have, 104 are stereo (about 25%). A stereo player is nice; but, not necessary to enjoy CED's. You may get a better sound and picture using the RCA jacks. I haven't used the RF on a player in maybe 20 years so my memory is thin.

The only problem with a Zenith player is the stylus. I am not sure about their availability. The best alternative to the Zenith is an RCA player as parts are more readily found. CEDmagic.com stocks RCA belts for free with a limit of 4 belts per year. Ceddatum,com stocks many spare parts (i.e. belts, IC's) and rebuilds/cleans styluses (the only place that does in the world). At this writing, there is an SJT-300 for sale on e-bay that needs work. If you are a DIY'er, it maybe up your alley. The most problem encountered with the RCA SJT and SFT players is the "gooey belt syndrome". The one drive belt inside the player turns to sticky mush from age. Replacing the belt it is not difficult. However, cleaning up the goo is another matter.

The final decision is yours. I would select an RCA SJT-300 or SJT-400 as both used a remote control. Don't worry about a remote as they are available. Should you need one, post your request on this forum and I am sure someone will help you out. (I personally have 2 remotes for the SJT-400 and 1 remote for the SJT-300 should you really need one).

If you are offered the Zenith player at a reasonable price, go ahead and get it. There is no harm in having more that one CED player as it can't hurt to have a spare one.
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Jesse Skeen



Joined: 28 May 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zenith players use the same large stylus cartridges as the F and G RCA players.

Toshiba and Hitachi mono players all had a jack for a stereo adaptor, which is rather hard to find. I'd like to get one just for the novelty- RCA's attitude was that people wouldn't mind buying a new player in a year or so to get stereo, now 35 years later we still have people who don't know what proper sound is supposed to be Rolling Eyes
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Dude111



Joined: 28 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion proper sound IS MONO .. Everything joined together,sounding the BEST it can.....
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dumbchemist



Joined: 27 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jesse Skeen wrote:
Zenith players use the same large stylus cartridges as the F and G RCA players.

Toshiba and Hitachi mono players all had a jack for a stereo adaptor, which is rather hard to find. I'd like to get one just for the novelty- RCA's attitude was that people wouldn't mind buying a new player in a year or so to get stereo, now 35 years later we still have people who don't know what proper sound is supposed to be Rolling Eyes


I found out about the 149000/154100 stylus for the F and G players after i had made my post. CEDdatum.com should have either stylus. They do show up on E-bay occasionally.

There was a stereo adapter for sale on E-bay many moons ago with an Hitachi player (I think). I believe I bid on it; but, the price went too high for me. Don't quote me on this: I think that Rizrex won the auction. That was the only stereo adapter I have ever seen. It is too bad that the circuit diagram is not available AFAI:K as a IEEE student could easily construct a prototype. (I do think that it would be cheaper to buy a stereo CED player than to build an adapter for a mono player.)
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kitchensynch



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can find similar things on stereo receivers...Pioneer had a jack on some of the 1978-81 model labeled 'AM Stereo Out' but they never issued a decoder. Sansui, Marantz and others had connections for quad and or Dolby FM decoding (several left Dolby FM to the cassette deck). Surround sound was given an input/loop before being incorporated into 'audio/video' receivers.

But I think that stereo was so close that those who wanted it got it. Stereo VCRs appeared at least three years before stereo TV, even if they weren't that good...prerecorded titles backed them up. Laserdisc was a stereo format practically from the beginning. And stereo TVs handled sources well before MTS. Cable TV used FM stereo carriers on their radio services. Stereo was busting out everywhere.
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dumbchemist



Joined: 27 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I was wrong on the stereo adapter. Here are the posts regarding it:

http://www.cedmagic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2647&highlight=stereo+adapter

Boy, was I off. The player was a Toshiba as was the adapter. The items were posted on E-bay in Jan. 2016.

As for AM Stereo: I had a 1987(?) Dodge Omni with an AM Stereo/FM Stereo radio. I would not write home about the AM Stereo part of the radio though. AM radio is predominantly talk. .FM Stereo is music. Stereo for talk radio is a waste. Music on FM stereo is static free. AM stereo is fraught with static and skip.
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kitchensynch



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By 1987, yes that was so and there weren't a lot of stations left in stereo. The FCC messed up the rollout and then chickened out...they picked a standard, the others complained and they basically decided to let the marketplace decide.

By 1984 Motorola's C-QUAM system was competing well with the Harris system, Magnavox was out and Kahn-Hazeltine's independent sideband (you could detune two radios below and above and get a bit of a dematrixed, semi stereo sound that was pretty good I'm told).

Harris' system was found to be infringing on the C-QUAM patents, to the point where Harris stereo exciters could be converted to C-QUAM fairly easily. Motorola, now out of the exciter business ended up with the standard by default.

When stations were actually playing music many had very high quality signals that you just can't get in an average AM tuner. I had a Sony AM stereo/FM stereo Walkman and AM stereo sounds more spacious (we had KBOI 670 in stereo then, it was awesome)!

And you are probably listening to mono AM, wide as it is in this case. You have to see the STEREO lit up and even then another signal next to it can cause a phase error that falsely triggers it ('falsing').

If you want to learn about a truly genius engineer and eccentric, maverick American entrepreneur, look up Leonard Kahn...he was quite a character.
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dumbchemist



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AM stereo sounds like Quadraphonc stereo. There were SQ, CD-4 and Stereo-4 to name 3 of the matrixed sound systems and none of them were compatible. The incompatibility meant that the listener had to either buy only one type of record or buy a separate decoder for each record matrix. As a result, quad died a slow as well as a quick death.

I have SQ and Stereo-4 decoders for my small collection of quad records. The decoders do a fair job of giving quad stereo sound. We have to remember that quad came out long before digital recordings were developed.
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dmbjunky



Joined: 23 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting discussion. I was wondering why stereo CEDs are capable of surround. Surely there weren't any players capable of surround back then.
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Jesse Skeen



Joined: 28 May 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way Dolby Stereo mixes on film worked, the surround information was recorded out-of-phase and was present on nearly every stereo copy of that movie- a few exceptions being some of Magnetic Video's early laserdisc releases (like The Black Stallion) that actually had the surround tracks taken out for some reason! If a movie has "Dolby Stereo" anywhere on it (not to be confused with "Dolby System" on older VHS tapes, which means they have Dolby Noise Reduction similar to audio cassettes), that means it should be played in Pro-Logic with center and surround; not every movie will have noticeable surround as that's how it was mixed, but should still be played that way.

AM stereo sounded great, though the music I liked at the time was only on FM. Hardware support for that was awful, about how HD radio is now. You basically had to hunt down AM stereo if you wanted something capable of receiving it, most people didn't care.
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kitchensynch



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the time I realized KFI had been in AM stereo, it was too late.

I think KFRC used a system other than C-QUAM, never heard it in stereo, made it to SF in summer 1982 but had nom chance to locate a store with any AMS radios.
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Jesse Skeen



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a cassette recording in stereo of KFRC's format change from top 40 to "Magic 61" in summer 1986- they were going to change the long-time call letters then as well but thought better of it as the new call letters were too similar to another station in the area and they complained about it.
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SelectaVision420



Joined: 25 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

or you could just go through the reference guide...
http://www.cedmagic.com/museum/ced-player-guide/ced-player-guide.html
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dumbchemist



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In case anyone wants to try quad stereo, do the following:

Buy a 4 channel decoder or a discrete 4 channel source. The most common decoder for records is the SQ format as there are more records. (I recommend the Lafayette SQ-L or SQ-W decoders) A discrete 4 channel source is either an 8-track 4 channel tape deck or a 4 channel reel to reel deck. There were no other 4 channel discrete sources that I know of.

Hook the decoder to your record player if you choose this format. Your AVR needs to have 5.1 discrete inputs on its back. Connect the decoder or the tape deck to 4 of the 6 inputs. Do not connect to the bass or the center channel.

Now you can switch your AVR to the 5.1 channel input and play records or tapes and the sound will come out of your front 2 and back 2 speakers.

This is how I play quad records and it seems to work well.

I have the Marakesh Express on an SQ record and the sound bounces from front to back speakers during the chorus. Not bad for a 40 year old analog technology.

I just thought about something. Some of the CED's were recorded in SQ so I am told. Play a stereo CED and take the CED player's output and feed it into the record SQ decoder and see what happens. I am not setup right now to try this; but, it is worth a try. Also, most SQ decoders have a "Composer" circuit that can work on the stereo signal to synthesize quad. Food for thought.
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kitchensynch



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I already have a JVC 4VR-5456 CD-4 and a Pioneer QX-8000 (that needs repair) Very Happy

I also have 4.0 and 5.1 Dolby Surround decoders so I can use multiple amps!

I can dematrix whatever I need to in this case.
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