CED VideoDisc and Player Discussion

[Phil Nelson]

Following the excellent instructions on this website, I replaced the turntable motor belt on my Toshiba (Wards GEN10301) player. The original flat belt had disintegrated into gobs of sticky black goo, so I figured this was the place to start.

With the new grooved pulley & belt installed, the player still refuses to operate. After I load a disc and press Play, I hear a humming or buzzing sound as if a motor is spinning but engaged to nothing.

After I had installed the new pulley and belt, with the player powered off, I tried moving the turntable, which turned very stiffly, as if the motor didn't want to turn. When no belt was installed, the turntable spun very freely when I gave it a whirl by hand.

No doubt I have overlooked something obvious . . . .

Thanks for any tips!
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Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[blindfury420]

Did you replace the load belt and the servo belt also? Is there any way you can post video or pictures of your player or what you think is sticking on turntable?
_________________
I dont own

McMicheal 5001h
Hitachi VIP202P
JCP 686-5705
RCA SKT265, SKT300
RCA SJT400X, SJT425

[Phil Nelson]

I haven't replaced any other belts. I'm a novice regarding these players, although I have restored loads of antique radios & TVs.

The turntable itself doesn't stick. Before I installed the new belt, it spun freely. It only feels stubborn now that it's connected to the motor.
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Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[Rixrex]

You really need to check out the other two belts, If the turntable belt was gone to goo, then the other belts are probably no good and even gone and the humming you hear is one of the motors those other belts connect to just spinning.

if the turntable was spinning freely without the belt, and now it won't, probably a good idea to check out the motor. Probably you need to take that belt off again and see if the mototr is free moving. It could be that, in replacing the pully, you have something in a position now where it is binding up.

If you feel technically comfortable, I'd say take off that belt and see how things move then on their own. Also check out the other two belts. One is easy to see on the right side of the player. The other is harder as it is visible at the back side and underneath.

Since this is your first time, be careful.

[Phil Nelson]

Doh. I just ran out to the shop and located the two small belts, which have indeed gone bad. I'll order replacements. (What in the samhill were those belts made of, anyhow? I have never seen anything deteriorate exactly like that.)

While waiting for those to arrive, I'll remove the big belt and and investigate the situation with the motor. I thought I was being careful when installing these items, but it was kind of a tricky procedure.

Thanks for the speedy advice
_________________
Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[cbertra2]

Make sure that the new pully is not sitting right on top of the motor causing it to bind up. there must be a gap between the motor and the pully.
If you haven't thrown the old pully away yet I'd like to have it. I machine a 1/8 groove in those pullys to accept the new round belt.

[Phil Nelson]

Well, that was easy. I had accidentally looped the belt over this flat post that sticks up from the chassis:



Now, the turntable spins normally. (I can hear the belt lightly brushing the underside of the turntable, but I suppose that's unavoidable with this setup where the belt naturally rides upward.)

If I get this player working with the new pulley, you're welcome to the old one. Just send me a PM with your mailing address.
_________________
Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[Phil Nelson]

Wahoo! New servo and loading belts did the trick.





Thanks for the advice, and especially to CEDMagic for providing great technical info, not to mention parts.

Cbertra2, if you would like the old turntable drive pulley, send me a PM with your mailing address, or you can send regular email by going to http://antiqueradio.org/contact.htm .

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html
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Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[blindfury420]

Awesome! I'm glad it worked out for you! Tom's website instructions and belts and it was good to go, even has a nice looking picture. Did you find the stylus in it or did you replace it?

Great to see people actually trying to fix these kind of players as most likely get binned because of complex belt repairs
_________________
I dont own

McMicheal 5001h
Hitachi VIP202P
JCP 686-5705
RCA SKT265, SKT300
RCA SJT400X, SJT425

[Phil Nelson]

I'm using the stylus that was in it. Never having seen one of these play before, I'm not sure how to tell whether a new one is needed. The picture looks grainier than VHS quality, but perhaps that's the nature of the beast.

Replacing the two little belts was extremely easy. The big turntable belt was a little trickier, but nothing that an average person couldn't do if they carefully follow the instructions.

The only time-consuming chore was cleaning up the tacky goo left behind from the old turntable belt. I guess pieces of it had gotten spread around inside the player somehow. Maybe the player was turned upside down or sideways when I shipped it from MN to WA. Anyhow, when I first tried the player, some of the goo picked up on a cartridge and slopped around into even more places. It took a lot of paper towels, Q-tips, and lacquer thinner to get rid of the mess.

This player sat in my Dad's basement for about 20 years. He had picked it up at a garage sale and never even tried it out. My younger son (age 24) is an avid collector of old VHS tapes and he's pretty excited about seeing this retro gizmo in working condition.

Phil Nelson
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Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[blindfury420]

Yep the turntable belt will turn most people away let alone the cost of it and the new metal pulley's.. that's where cbertra2 comes in and can groove the existing pulley to accept the new round belt!

The picture looked ok for an unchecked stylus but Its hard to tell full story of stylus from a few pictures and it could be the disc creating problems not necessarily the stylus! Good news on the stylus though, there is a team called cedatum that can clean, repair, and fully rebuild any stylus! Check them out here www.cedatum.com
_________________
I dont own

McMicheal 5001h
Hitachi VIP202P
JCP 686-5705
RCA SKT265, SKT300
RCA SJT400X, SJT425

[Rixrex]

The best old belt goo remover is ammonia, as suggested by another forum member a while back. I tried it with 100% ammonia, pretty cheap really and you can used it for washing clothes too.

The goo came right up like it was only spilled catsup.

On the stylus, not a bad idea to send it in for checking because it may just need good cleaning. The image should actually be as good as VHS or Beta, and the graininess usually indicates dirty or worn stylus. NOS ones are available as well, though pricey.

A newly cleaned or rebuilt stylus is like a night & day difference.

[Phil Nelson]

Thanks for the advice. I emailed the cedatum guys about sending my cartridge in for inspection & refurb if needed.
_________________
Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[cbertra2]

The belt should not rub on the turntable. Drop the pully down as far as you can with out touchung the motor or turn the pully over if need be.

[Phil Nelson]

The pulley's as far down as it can go without touching. I hadn't thought of turning it over. I'll check that out.
_________________
Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[Phil Nelson]

I turned over the pulley, and now it runs without brushing the underside of the platter. It took a couple of tries to get it right. The first time, the belt was too low and fell off after a minute. I moved it up on the shaft, and now it stays on.

I inspected the stylus under a strong light and magnifying glass. It looked clean as a whistle, but I cleaned it with a little isopropyl alcohol anyway.

The picture looks pretty good now. I think I'll play a few movies before I jump to any conclusions about the stylus. Some of what I'm seeing may just be worn discs.
_________________
Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[Phil Nelson]

Incidentally, here's what happened to the first disc that I put into this player, before I realized that the belts had turned into goo.







I had cleaned off the outside (notice scuffed label in first photo) earlier, but today it occurred to me that some of the goo might have made its way inside, as well. I guess that's the cleaning felt which got pulled loose and stuck near the bottom of the caddy.

At first, I couldn't get the disc out at all. I left it to bake in the sun for an hour, and then the tarry gunk softened enough to ease it open. It's a blessing in disguise that all of the belts were broken at the time this happened, otherwise the gunk would have been splattered around even more than it was.

I assume this disc is unsalvageable, but I'll clean off the goo anyway. I had chosen this for a first trial because it's a movie I've never been interested in, and the cover was already somewhat beat up.
_________________
Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[Rixrex]

Yeah, that's a title you don't have to worry about. A really fine movie, but lots of them out there. I have so many extra of it, you can have one free if you wish.

[SelectaVision420]

sweet dude im glad you took the time to fix everything up!
_________________
(2)Sears 274 & 934(80150,10&11350), sft100, sgt250, sjt 090-400, vp550, VDR3000, VP2000 & 4000
complete '84 Dimensia Owner

[Rixrex]

[Phil Nelson]

OK, with better magnification I could see that it was still dirty.

Can't really tell much at 10X:



At 60X I can see fuzz on the tip:





The stylus is cleaner now:



The picture seems good, too. Some of my discs are clearly worn. You can see the same blips at exactly the same places when you play them.
_________________
Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[Rixrex]

So how did you magnify it so nicely?

And what did you do to get the fuzz off?

Very nice job on that stylus.

[Phil Nelson]

I used a Digital Blue QX5 student microscope. Pretty weak in the microscope world, but it works well enough for this purpose.



You can remove the barrel from the stand to examine objects like this cartridge that wouldn't fit on a microscope tray. The image is viewed (and saved if you want) on your computer.



For cleaning I used a brand new artist brush and isopropyl alcohol under a magnifying light.



Cleaning only took a few soft swipes.
_________________
Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[Rixrex]

How cool! I had not yet seen the digital microscopes.

Did you brush in the opposite direction of the turntable in relation to the stylus?

[Phil Nelson]

Yes, in the opposite direction.

I don't know a lot about microscopes. I bought this one cheap from a student who advertised on craigslist. My son owns a much more powerful conventional microscope, but photography with that one requires special gear that would cost more than I paid for this simple scope.
_________________
Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[SelectaVision420]

[Phil Nelson]

Very ingenious. I hadn't thought of using a cell phone camera that way.

I wrote a brief article about bringing this player back to life. It adds a little more background and detail to the topic of this thread:

http://antiqueradio.org/WardsGEN10301CEDVideoPlayer.htm

Thanks again to the members here for the helpful advice.
_________________
Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[SRSanford10]

Very nice microscope photos! I also have a Wards player and was looking at the stylus with a microscope last year. I am wondering about the structure of the tip. What we are seeing in the photo , and similarly, what I had seen last year seems to show two sculpted sections that appear to form about a 90 degree angle. The rather shallow groves in CED are supposed to form a 120 degree angle. Are we not seeing the actual "shoe" part of the tip (which is really much smaller), or what is going on?
_________________
Scotty

[Phil Nelson]

It's hard to judge angles from those photos. In the second "dirty stylus" photo, the angle looks smaller than in the "clean stylus" photo. Perhaps one of the CED gurus knows the real answer.
_________________
Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[blindfury420]

I like the info you put up about the player, very cool phil!

usb microscopes
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Play-USB-Microscope-/190723594373?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c68031885
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-USB-Digital-LED-Endoscope-Otoscope-Microscope-5MP-/140598844389?forcev4exp=true
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-25X-200X-Magnifier-2-0-MP-Digital-Microscope-Endoscope-Video-Cam-8-LED-New-/271047313536?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1badc880

phone microscopes
http://www.ebay.com/itm/60X-Zoom-Magnify-Microscope-Micro-Lens-For-Apple-iPhone-4-4S-4G-With-LED-Light-/300765223769?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4607011b59
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-100X-Zoom-Cellphone-Microscope-Maginifier-Back-Cover-For-iPhone-4-4S-/261050806687?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item3cc7d7319f
_________________
I dont own

McMicheal 5001h
Hitachi VIP202P
JCP 686-5705
RCA SKT265, SKT300
RCA SJT400X, SJT425