CED VideoDisc and Player Discussion

[Beetlescott]

I'm sure there are threads on this, but I'm ignorant about the converter things, I'm great at hooking up a home theater, but not when it comes to changing some of the earliest players to be able to plug in RCA cables. I hooked up my like new Zenith VP 1000 tonight to the monitor I acquired when we bought the house. I used a cheap coaxil cord, one that just slides on the post, and the picture wasn't too good. I'm usre if i got my better coaxil lines out and screwed them tightly on both the monitor and the player. But since I have never used one of those conversion boxes I wanted to know how much better the picture would be, versus Is there another way to make the picture any better? I don't want to spend my money for a conversion box if the picture or sound won't be that much better. Any suggestions would be gratefully appreciated!
_________________
1000 titles
SGT-250
SJT-400
Montgomery Ward
SGT-100

[Rixrex]

Any upconvertor you'd get would partly depend upon the set itself. What kind of video inputs does the monitor have? Is it widescreen? Is it CRT or plasma or another type? Any HDMI inputs? And what is it's top resolution, basically meaning is it a standard set or 480p or HD? (The model number can help to research this if you don't know - unless you plan to use a different TV at some point)

Not sure the coax cable is the culprit. It might be, but even the slip-on types should give you a pretty good picture. Check to see it's not in the player. How does the player look on another set?

Some things that can cause such trouble:

Do either the coax cable or the player's CH 3-4 switch have visible static when you touch or wiggle it?

Is the stylus you're using pretty well used up and should be replaced?

[Beetlescott]

No, no & no .
Actually the picture was unwatchable, I have had much cleaner picture on this player. For all intents and purposes this player will be hooked to a Sharp 15" TV monitor. Not sure about the rest, but I will do some homework on it. Thanks for the input!
_________________
1000 titles
SGT-250
SJT-400
Montgomery Ward
SGT-100

[Rixrex]

To which questions are the "no's" applicable? I think I'd try another cable, then if not that another stylus.

You see, the type of upconverter you'd get would really depend upon the set because it makes no sense to get one that converts to HDMI output when you have no HDMI on the set.

For example, if your set is not widescreen and will accept component (DVD type) input, you're just fine with the simple and inexpensive DVDO Pro or Pro-Plus models. If it's widescreen and no HDMI, you can easily get by with the inexpensive DVDO ultra, or for a bit more a DVDO HD model.

Another easy method is to take the player RF output and hook it to a VCR, then tune the VCR input to Ch 3 or 4 (same as player out is set on) and hook the VCR A/V to your set, and use the VCR as your converter to go from RF to audio/video RCA outputs. The only catch is that the VCR has to be powered on to do the conversion.

[Beetlescott]

I was joking with the no answers:). What I'm trying to do is get a box, you plug the coaxil cabel in from the outside, and on the front is a set of RCA plugs that you can convert these 2, 15" monitors. I'm going to mount them on the wall just above where my players will be displayed so I can hook up any of the players I wan too. I didn't mean the upconverter box, just one that will keep me from having to run the cables. I have been told an box that does this, can enhance the quailty of the picture.
_________________
1000 titles
SGT-250
SJT-400
Montgomery Ward
SGT-100

[Rixrex]

Well, I guess the important question to be answered is: What type of inputs will the two monitors accept?

Once that's answered, the correct type of box to do what you want can be found.

[Beetlescott]

My monitors will accept the RCA cables, coaxal or Super Video. I suppose my question would be, would it be worth the effort to convert to RCA cables? I mean would the picture quality be that much better?
_________________
1000 titles
SGT-250
SJT-400
Montgomery Ward
SGT-100

[Rixrex]

Not in your case, sorry. The only improvement you could get is going to a video enhancer/upconverter such as the DVDO models or others, and for that you have to have either 3 plug component (DVD style) input, or DVI or HDMI inputs.

There's no improvement going from RF to composite video or S-video using any sort of device that will do that, such as a VCR. The only sort of improvement for RF picture quality outside of upconverters would be either within the player's design and build, or within the set itself. For example, some sets have better components to give a better picture, like the Pioneer elite series, and some also up the interlaced video to progressive scan.

However, there are several really good switchers available with amplification that will allow you to place the players into the switcher and then run a cable to one TV or even to two TVs. I have one of those made by motorola that is really early 80s style and a great match to the SFT/SGT series, woodgrain and such, and it works great without loss of signal quality.

Here's two vintage ones on ebay that would do the job, and they each have several inputs and two outputs for two TVs, or two of whatever you want to hook to.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARCHER-VIDEO-SELECTOR-SWITCH-BOX-RF-VIDEO-INPUTS-TV-VCR-INPUTS-15-1265-/140606409167?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20bccb89cf

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Archer-TV-VTR-Recording-Video-Selector-Switcher-/190579028236?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5f65310c

[7jlong]

Re: Radio Shack (Archer) passive RF switching boxes like these two, my own strong suggestion would be: don't do it. In my experience they were a disappointment - and I doubt that they have improved with age. The signal degradation wasn't wretched, but certainly noticeable. Enough to have me return a very, very similar Archer model and spring for an amplified version. In fact, the very model that I stepped up to way back when is up for Buy It Now here. (Archer model 15-1264, for when this auction expires and the link becomes useless)

[Beetlescott]

[7jlong]

Well... I think this thread got a little muddled from there being two parallel topics running at the same time: upconverting for better signal, and allowing several devices to talk to one TV. Here is a summary.

- Passive RF switchers, like the two Rixrex listed: you can spot them easily as they don't plug in to the wall. These just take several inputs and allow you to switch between them for use on one TV. No improvement in signal implied or expected, and no conversion from RF to composite video. They were in production long before panels, HD, digital, etc. In my experience they harm the signal, though by design they should not. A modern parallel for these would be the plastic game-switch boxes that have, say, four sets of inputs and one output. Usually composite video/S-Video/audio and no RF.

- Amplified RF switchers, like the one I mentioned: same principle as above, though the amplification is meant to prevent any signal degradation. Still, no improvement necessarily implied - just a clean passage of the signal from the source through the switcher and on to the TV. The one I cited is also old and not meant to handle any kind of upconvert for modern standards, nor do they typically have composite video outputs. Just a switch, nothing more.

- Conversion boxes: these have come up a few times on the forums here. There are dozens of varieties by lots of manufacturers, but there is usually one common theme: taking an older standard (coaxial RF, yellow RCA composite video, S-Video, etc) and "upconverting" it to play better with newer technologies - primarily HDMI, though there are some that offer DVI or VGA outputs that are more common in computer monitors. These converters are meant to address the fact that while many newer TVs/monitors/panels/etc have a coaxial and/or composite video input, the makers often skimp on the processing circuitry that converts the signal from analog to digital - which is why even Laserdisc, which is really just a hair below DVD in resolution, suddenly looks crummy when connected to many new TVs.

Often these are little boxes that have one input and one output, though there are switcher-types, and some home theater receivers also promise some kind of upconvert when you connect older sources.

I looked at the Target site to see what you might have purchased - was it the GE "RF Modulator"? You are correct, probably a waste of time. Most of these are meant to address the problem going in the other direction: newer playback device, older TV with no inputs besides coaxial. Not only that, they get wretched reviews.

8-bit gamers deal with this problem a lot, but they settle easier for simply connecting to the RF input on a new TV: the hard edges and blocky graphics of an old Atari cartridge of Space Invaders are much, much more forgiving than a full motion, full color video picture!

All that said, there are converter boxes that address your very situation: going from coaxial RF to composite video. If you do a search on "TV RF demodulator" you'll find a few. Will it be worth it? Will the improvement be marginal or significant? I think that's going to be up to the individual and the quality of the TV they are using. If your TV is doing a great job of processing the RF signal and you are happy with the picture, than it might not be worth it to bother.

However, if you think there might be room for improvement or are disappointed relative to what you used to see on a tube pick one out, find a place with a lenient return policy, and give it a shot. I'm sure the DVDO boxes that have come up on this thread do quite a lovely job indeed, but they also have a price tag that leaves me cold. There are others in a variety of price ranges. Simply use search terms that describe what you want to do ("coaxial to RCA converter", etc) and there will be plenty of results - but read the reviews before going forward! As with everything, "you get what you pay for" is the operating principle.

[Rixrex]

An outstanding summary, well done! Only a couple of points I'd like to add.

My experience with the passive switchers has been fine in that signal degradation wasn't signioficanty noticable, however I also agree that the amplified verrsions are the better way to go if you need to switch RF sources.

The only thing I ever used to convert from RF to A/V was a VCR, and it did a fine job. No improvement and no noticable degradation either.

I have used both DVDO and Faroudja upconverters, and had better results with the DVDO brand overall at better prices than the Faroudja. The thing that they both lack is RF input upconversion. However, they will upconvert to analog HD via component output, or RGB, as well as digital for most models.

If you want to go to HDMI output with audio via RF analog input, I've only found one model that does such, and that's the Hitachi AVC-08U or it's earlier version, AVC-01U, both 720P/1080i or full 1080p. The AVC-50 will do it via DVI output, but only 720p/1080i. They will convert RF analog (and RF digital & RF cable/satellite) to HDMI, but if you want to do more than one RF device, you have to do the piggyback system like the old days, going RF out to the next device RF in, and so on.

The Hitachi was the tuner for the 1.5 ultrathin series of TVs, but it will work on any plasma, LCD or LED set, and NOT on CRT sets. I find it to be my favorite as it is usually available for less than $100, but you must have the remote to operate it, either the original Hitachi TV remote or a learning remote set up for it, which is what I use.