CED VideoDisc and Player Discussion

[Real1shepherd]

[Beetlescott]

What I am finding hard to understand, is, though you are new, and we always love new people coming in. You saw that I made it very clear that I was a major Monkees Fan, and you insult them and their "aging fans". I'm not hurt by it, I just don't understand the reason to go out of your way to try an ailenate new people:( We have great debates in here with out resorting to slurs.
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1000 titles
SGT-250
SJT-400
Montgomery Ward
SGT-100

[Real1shepherd]

[Real1shepherd]

[Beetlescott]

[7jlong]

Well, we've both now said that we're done with this, but since you'd like to speak about me as if I'm not here:

1) I stand behind everything I said. You are now backpedaling, apologizing to Beetlescott, and telling him that you "should have" prefaced your comment as being your opinion only. That was my point all along.

2) You began the insults, personal or not. You also speak as if you are above such things, but you aren't, i.e. "some venomous, hack forum member". I have no strong interest in what direction threads go, and never said anything like what you imply. If I did I would have said "can we stop talking about vinyl now and get back to the imagined future of CED?" or "hey! no more Monkees talk! let's get back to arguing about streaming!" Sorry, I looked again, but can't find it.

3) ad-hoc arguments? You mean arguments "for the special purpose or end presently under consideration and no other"? Gosh, you say that like it's a problem. Sorry, I won't go for impulsive generalizations as others are inclined to do. One size does not fit all.

4) By "deserved what he got" you are very clearly - at least in your own mind - claiming some kind of victory, whether you admit it or not. Sorry, but I'm not quite sure what I "got" besides a gripping and fascinating exchange.

5) From "Except that their 'crowds' are aging as well, meager by their 'back in the day' standards" to "more power to ya!"? I guess this discussion has had no impact at all, right?

I don't want discord on a forum more than anyone else does. We can go on for months waiting to see who gets the last word in, but as much as you'd like to throw around the idea that forum longevity = some kind of higher authority over the board (which I most assuredly do not have, and never claimed), I would have said the same to anyone on any board that I had spent any time on - after carefully reading through many, many threads and determining what kind of forum it was and what sort of discourse (be it pleasant, hostile, lively, prone to slinging random insults about pet peeves, goofy, etc) they engaged in.

You chose not to do that. I pointed it out. Was I frustrated by that? Yes. Did it surface? You betcha. Did I comment? I will again if necessary, gladly. Did I use sarcasm instead of a gentle tsk-tsk? Yes. Do I find that to be a problem, since as far as I can tell most people here are pretty good at the sarcasm game (i.e. every tread about outrageous eBay prices)? No.

I apologize for nothing, whether you think that's an indicator of my "manliness" or not. I could go into detail why that in itself is a ridiculous thing to say, but why bother.

[7jlong]

But back to a more interesting topic currently at hand (LP rumble) - this is a problem that of course plagues digitizing vinyl as well. That whole process is a whole book in and of itself, but one small bit of advice: do not be lured in by modern software tricks that claim to fix it, especially the cheapy software that comes with those USB turntables.

Typically they do one of two things: they go by a pre-programmed range of frequencies and slash away at them (and they don't make any decisions about what is recorded sound and what is noise), or you can "teach" better software by having it sample the quiet band between tracks. The software then analyzes that sample and looks for all other instances that match those frequencies at that amplitude and removes them. There are usually ways to adjust the threshold, noise floor, and level of correction, but in my experience (transferring about 600 songs from varying-quality vinyl) it does more harm than good. It's hard to teach software what's noise and what's signal if the recording happens to cut through that range of frequencies, even once.

That said, with a very delicate hand and a lot of patience it can sometimes be tweaked to almost just-right for that particular record - though it may make the next record you try sound wretched as the noise "signature" will be different.

[Real1shepherd]

I wasn't talking about digitizing LP's. I was talking about using a rumble filter for analog taping. Other than one upmanship (which seems to be your continuous motive here and the fact you have clearly superior intellect), I'm not sure when we branched into digitizing LP recording. The two topics are very separate processes and nobody even mentioned a USB TT. But thanks for the primmer.....

Kevin

[7jlong]

I am well aware that you weren't talking about digitizing LPs, I was just adding an interesting (I thought) bit of additional info, as in: "this is a problem that of course plagues digitizing vinyl as well." Yes, I very thoroughly read your post about analog technologies. You didn't go into digital, so I thought I'd contribute and help get this thread back on an even keel, since I had a major hand in throwing it off-center.

But thanks, glad you accused me earlier of trying to lead the thread and then turned around and pitched a fit when someone strayed ever-so-slightly from what you wanted to talk about. And I'm the one being accused of a hair trigger?

Threads move, twist, and turn. Organically. But again, really, thanks for the heads up. Just contributing more info to the dialog, but I'll stay out of your "turf" if it really means that much to you. I'm not sure how what I offered was one-uppsmanship, since as you point out they're two different (though obviously related) topics.

Oh, and, the information wasn't directed to you, more to the person who asked a very reasonable question. I was guessing he might also be thinking about digitizing at some point. Not all that wild a leap.

[Real1shepherd]

Well, we've both now said that we're done with this, but since you'd like to speak about me as if I'm not here:

You said you were done; show me were I said I was.


1) I stand behind everything I said. You are now backpedaling, apologizing to Beetlescott, and telling him that you "should have" prefaced your comment as being your opinion only. That was my point all along.

Nobody is "backpeddling". I am sensitive to those who ask reasonable questions and don't insult. You chose the lower road.


2) You began the insults, personal or not. You also speak as if you are above such things, but you aren't, i.e. "some venomous, hack forum member". I have no strong interest in what direction threads go, and never said anything like what you imply. If I did I would have said "can we stop talking about vinyl now and get back to the imagined future of CED?" or "hey! no more Monkees talk! let's get back to arguing about streaming!" Sorry, I looked again, but can't find it.

You seem to have a funny definition of what are insults and what are not....I suppose that comes form hiding behind sarcasm. Perhaps you should reread all you said and make a list of negatives & positives...then compare the two. And I never said I didn't insult as well, in fact I said once you started, it was 'on'.


3) ad-hoc arguments? You mean arguments "for the special purpose or end presently under consideration and no other"? Gosh, you say that like it's a problem. Sorry, I won't go for impulsive generalizations as others are inclined to do. One size does not fit all.

Yeah you know, the very basis and content of your venomous attack against me.


4) By "deserved what he got" you are very clearly - at least in your own mind - claiming some kind of victory, whether you admit it or not. Sorry, but I'm not quite sure what I "got" besides a gripping and fascinating exchange.

Read again "nobody scored any victory here". If anything I was hoping you'd stay true to your word and not keep this going. Again, you chose poorly.


5) From "Except that their 'crowds' are aging as well, meager by their 'back in the day' standards" to "more power to ya!"? I guess this discussion has had no impact at all, right?

While I listen to other's sensibilities, you choose to ignore someone who ruffled your cock feathers. You seem to think it's an impossible, inflexible task to come back and express regrets at insulting someone's favorite group. You on the other hand, admit to not even being a Monkees fan, but jumped into the discussion just to admonish the "blowhard". But wait...you don't personally insult.


I don't want discord on a forum more than anyone else does. We can go on for months waiting to see who gets the last word in, but as much as you'd like to throw around the idea that forum longevity = some kind of higher authority over the board (which I most assuredly do not have, and never claimed), I would have said the same to anyone on any board that I had spent any time on - after carefully reading through many, many threads and determining what kind of forum it was and what sort of discourse (be it pleasant, hostile, lively, prone to slinging random insults about pet peeves, goofy, etc) they engaged in.

Again, you're setting the tone and temper for this forum. In addition, you have taken on the personal task of putting a "blowhard/troll" in his place. So clearly you are at cross purposes to what you believe this board should be like. And again, you take absolutely no responsibility for your actions or anything you said.


I apologize for nothing, whether you think that's an indicator of my "manliness" or not. I could go into detail why that in itself is a ridiculous thing to say, but why bother.

Why bother (?), because it would at least set things right and let the thread/board resume to a respectful level. I honestly think you don't have it in you. That would be your definition of "backpedaling" after all. Someone as obviously inflexible as you cannot do such a thing because humility is not one of your virtues...at least not in this thread.

Now I really am done, but feel free to spew more hostility if you must.

Kevin

[7jlong]

Actually, I take all responsibility, as I've said many times. If Tom wants to ban me he can feel free to. If your presence has soured this thread, so be it. If I have, I'll take responsibility and excuse myself despite some loose agreement with what I was saying from other members. If you want to continue with your foot-stamping, by all means. I made my attempt to drop it and get back on-topic; you didn't like it.

Whatever. It's just a forum. Enjoy yourself however you want.

[Real1shepherd]

Oh, and, the information wasn't directed to you, more to the person who asked a very reasonable question. I was guessing he might also be thinking about digitizing at some point. Not all that wild a leap.

Exactly, you were guessing and striving to be heard. He asked me why I used a rumble filter for LP's.

"Hair trigger" (?), yeah.....since you have this incredibly shallow and self-serving vendetta to 'get' me, while refusing to apologize for anything you've said.

Kevin

[PaulSOCW]

speaking of records id love to convert a faulty CED player into a record player.

[Beetlescott]

[7jlong]

Well, there is a variety of devices on the market that you can put between your VHS deck and computer to capture video onto your hard drive. Many of them include some very basic software that will let you trim your clips and tack them together for burning to a DVD. Some of the better devices will come with a copy of Adobe Premiere Elements, which is a bit more robust.

I was looking for a relatively inexpensive device for my office, and the reviews are all over the map for all of them. A friend swears by the Pyro A/V Link, but this converts to DV - you'll need to have a FireWire port on your computer. You should also have a relatively speedy machine - capturing video can be a little taxing.

But there are a number of newer USB devices that promise good things, and the software looks relatively intuitive. I used to use an ATI TV Wonder card to capture; worked pretty well. Check a site like NewEgg for "usb video capture" and it will display a number of solutions in a variety of price ranges - down to about $25 if I remember correctly.

I don't have any experience with set-top DVD burners, but that's another option.

But yes, it should be possible to get all those singers on one DVD. If it is too much most software will scale the quality a bit to make it all fit, and these days they seem to do a relatively decent job with compression.

[Beetlescott]

[Beetlescott]

[Jesse Skeen]

Best way to make a 'best-of' DVD is to get the recordings you want to edit onto a computer (either by ripping an MPEG file from a DVD made from a DVD recorder, or played on a VCR directly into the computer if you know how to do that) and then use a video editing program to cut all the parts you want together. With a DVD authoring program, you can make a menu to skip to whichever part you want to see.

If you lack the technology or know-how to use a computer, just do it with a DVD recorder the same way as if you were copying to another VCR- have it record and play the parts you want. If you use a re-writable disc you can delete any part you mess up and try again.

Wonder how CED recorders would have worked? I heard they were being worked on before the plug was pulled. There were a few devices that let you record records too, but they weren't very popular- they were mainly for making straight off-microphone recordings, don't think they were audiophile quality.
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Videodisc and stereo sound- there's no better value around!

[7jlong]

Scott: thanks for the note. No, I have no intention of leaving! I like this group. Can't think of any good reason to go. I do appreciate the shout-out.

[7jlong]

P.s. Besides - I wouldn't dream of missing our hat-or-cake date in three years. If I take responsibility for nothing else, I'll surely take responsibility for that!

[Beetlescott]

[Real1shepherd]

[Alchemy]

[Beetlescott]

[Real1shepherd]

[7jlong]

Hmm. Well, my best experience is with the SJT-300, but that seems to be a pretty good candidate for conversion to a linear-tracking turntable. If you ripped out all of the CED-specific apparatus and replaced it with a cartridge/needle for vinyl, disengaged it from the control gears and made sure the "tonearm" had as little resistance and enough free movement as possible to track grooves unassisted - vinyl requires little (no) circuitry, just a clean path to the preamp. It wouldn't require really much work at all besides free arm movement and the proper adjustment to fix turntable speed. I like this idea!

[Beetlescott]

Concerning the success of CED. I have said this before. I feel that whoever came up with the idea was a genius. I understand the politics was one of the problems that kept delaying the release of the Capacitance Electronic Disc system. Imagine what would of happened if the CED player had of been released to the public in 1968? There were no VCRs of any kind! Records were booming and the obvious next step would fo been for a record that would also play a pictureback. If they had of gotten the format off the ground when they first made mention of it, it would of had a long run, and who knows, maybe RCA would of MADE 600 million bucks instead of the other way around. It is something to imagine!
_________________
1000 titles
SGT-250
SJT-400
Montgomery Ward
SGT-100

[Real1shepherd]

I think it's going to be more complicated than that. The whole machine principle is based around audio and visual. You would have to adapt a modern cart to that tonearm.....and you can forget the drop-in feature of the present cart. True, you'd only need the audio signal from both channels. What you'd wind up with is a truly gutted CED player with just a spinning TT and linear arm.

Would be a fun 'project', methinks. But you would never approach the playback quality of a modern TT. The best start would be to remove everything from the present case and mount it on a board. Start stripping down components to get to just audio. But I think the majority of the work would be adapting a modern cart to that arm and figuring a way to match tracking with anti-skate.....and of course figuring a way to adjust tracking weights. Then there's the whole issue of cart compliance and that huge linear arm.....blaaaa

Kevin

[Real1shepherd]

[7jlong]