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Found an easy way to go to S-video on my CED

 
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Rixrex



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1222

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 4:51 pm    Post subject: Found an easy way to go to S-video on my CED Reply with quote

Those reading the forum might recall my previous post asking how to rig an S-video output on a CED, and I almost was ready to mess up a good player to try it, but hesitated to do some more research. In studying many websites that describe in detail how S-video works, how the signal is created from the video source, and why it's so much better in appearance than composite video, I discovered that there are devices that actually can take the composite signal and split it into S-video, and vice-versa, too. I found such a device at the local radio shack, which was advertised as an auto-sensing selector, listed price $50 and on sale for $30. Now, I'm not saying this as a promotion for Radio Shack, because I'm sure other places sell these, but I found this device to do what it advertised. The composite video sources were indeed transformed into S-video, and the picture was definitely improved. This made sense since it's in the actual viewing device where the difference appears, and it's the same thing a laserdisc does, since the video image apparently is created in composite form from the LD recording itself, and is transformed to S-video on those devices which have this function. So I not only saved a fine CED player from becoming a test subject, I also saved my beta collection, because there's only one Sony beta player made with S-video output sold in the US, and it's price is outrageous!
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Reinhart



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Found an easy way to go to S-video on my CED Reply with quote

Rixrex wrote:
Those reading the forum might recall my previous post asking how to rig an S-video output on a CED, and I almost was ready to mess up a good player to try it, but hesitated to do some more research. In studying many websites that describe in detail how S-video works, how the signal is created from the video source, and why it's so much better in appearance than composite video, I discovered that there are devices that actually can take the composite signal and split it into S-video, and vice-versa, too. I found such a device at the local radio shack, which was advertised as an auto-sensing selector, listed price $50 and on sale for $30. Now, I'm not saying this as a promotion for Radio Shack, because I'm sure other places sell these, but I found this device to do what it advertised. The composite video sources were indeed transformed into S-video, and the picture was definitely improved. This made sense since it's in the actual viewing device where the difference appears, and it's the same thing a laserdisc does, since the video image apparently is created in composite form from the LD recording itself, and is transformed to S-video on those devices which have this function. So I not only saved a fine CED player from becoming a test subject, I also saved my beta collection, because there's only one Sony beta player made with S-video output sold in the US, and it's price is outrageous!


CED video is not true composite as it employs chroma-under, similar to VHS and Betamax. This means that the chorma and luma elements are separate with these formats and are composited into a single signal to create the composite video signal. The moment that the video is combined into a composite signal, it must be processed by a comb filter to separate the elements before the video can be used to drive the display. This will invariably cause a loss of overall definition in the video. However, with CED, Beta, and VHS, the video bandwidth is typically low to the point where such loss is usually negligible, especially when compared to the difference between composite and s-video with a source like DVD.

LaserVision, on the other hand, is true composite all the way, with the chroma element of a higher bandwidth than CED, VHS, and Beta.

The video display quality from a composite feed on a monitor is heavily reliant on the comb filter that's used to separate the composite back into its separate elements. In the case of a LaserDisc player with an s-video output connected to a modern HDTV set, it may actually be better to employ the composite connection rather than the s-video as the comb filter in the HDTV is most likely going to be more advanced than the comb filter in the LaserDisc player. Sometimes, an outboard filter may be used which can separate the luma and chroma elements, which seems to be the case with the RadioShack product you've recommended (although some s-video converters are simple plug changers with no electronics, so it merely splits the composite unprocessed into both the luma and chroma lines, which really yields no improvement as the video must be processed in the same manner this way as if the composite connection was used to begin with).

As for the Beta player you are talking about, I assume you mean any of the ED-Beta decks as well as the Sony SL-HF2100. All very high end, very rare, and very expensive. - Reinhart
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Rixrex



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1222

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 8:18 pm    Post subject: Proof is in the viewing... Reply with quote

Understanding the technical matters as you discuss them, the actual viewing screen is where I eventually determine the effective quality of the image. As an example, the HD set I use is a Pioneer Elite series projection model with a built-in progressive scan "converter". This model is considered the best of its type with very positive reviews, both by technical journals and consumer publications. However, I have found that my Iscan Ultra is a significantly better P-scan enhancer than the built-in system, which is negligible. That being said, the simple Radio Shack device does visibly improve the picture quality with the composite signal to S-video circuitry it uses. The alternative was to possibly ruin a good CED player, and now I'm glad I didn't. What you say about the LD is quite true in that the composite signal vs S-video when played through the Iscan progressive mode is not visibly different, but the S-video signal is better than the composite when connected directly to the set, and played in interlaced mode. So this seems to indicate that the reduction of signal interference after it leaves the player is an important factor. I also see a big reduction in visible interference images, like "moire" and "jutter". If I were to choose the one item which made the best improvement in viewing, I'd say it was the Iscan Ultra by DVDO (now Anchor Bay). The old saying is that the original image cannot be improved, only made to look better through the reduction of interference and conversions, but the Iscan does actually improve the image significantly with its P-scan and enhancement technology. Of course it is only usable on those sets which have RGB or Y-Pr-Pb inputs.
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