CED VideoDisc and Player Discussion

[Alchemy]

I am considering a new tv, but *where* to begin? I currently have a 50" Toshiba that's 10 years old. So I'm thinking 50-60 is correct size for our space. I'll be hanging it on the wall and we will have a loveseat that sits at an angle to it- is Plasma a better way to go or have they all come so far that it's now a moot point?
Hookups is the other biggy, audio will be run through the stereo and we only watch movies, no cable for us (get disgusted with price/content so we disconnected again)
Anywho I need to hookup:
LaserDisc
CED
DVD
D-VHS (latest toy and it's all a CEDMagic members fault )
I'm sure I'll pick up more things, so many ports is good

So any recommendations for/against? Price point would be 'value' as we aren't watching HD programs.
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Scott
SGT-200, CLD-79
http://bcw.utnij.net <--- CED/LD collection

[Beetlescott]

Scott, I have a 52" Samsung Plasma that I bought it 2 years ago. Before that, I had an RCA 52"big screen. Since I just got back into CEDs last Fall, I wouldn't know how a projection tv does, but one of the reasons I went with the plasma screen, as how great it looks from a side angle. We are living in a codno, that is temporary, so my loft is much too small for it. But, I think the plasma does better in a smallerlr place. I love my choice. I have My SJT400, SGT250, Samsung BluRay player, Onkyo reciever, Direct TV box, and last but not least, a Sony VCR. Good luck withh whatever you decide on.
_________________
1000 titles
SGT-250
SJT-400
Montgomery Ward
SGT-100

[Rixrex]

This is a subject I could blab on endlessly about, but I'll try to keep it within a reasonable limit of words (maybe).

Having experience with just about every type of TV since CED inception (Dad and I had a TV-radio repair shop plus he worked for RCA in Indiana during the 70s and 80s), the best big-screen TV sets we ever saw for CED/LD/VCR playback were always PIONEER. Small screen sets, we'd choose trinitron. Those were the really old days.

Now back in the days of CRT projection sets, meaning the 90s, absolutely Pioneer Elite topped them all, and Mitsubishi was really good as well as they had the best 3D comb filter on the market. Those sets were designed for LD/VCR playback, and so still great for CED. I still have my 64" Pioneer Elite SD643HD5 1080i capable widescreen HD set from the 90s that was really an LD showcase set. I still love watching the LDs and CEDs on it with the addition of a DVDO HD enhancer/scaler.

But after the 90s the last super good quality HD set that really gives good viewing for CEDs is the now-defunct Sony CRT HD XBR sets and also the Sony SD Wega sets, usually running 32, 34, 36 and 40". It's no secret that the CRT still outperforms all other types, but they are smaller screen sizes, and WAY heavier. A relative of mine was going to toss his 34" HD Sony CRT and instead gave it to me. One $100 part and it was like new, and now it's in a small den, outperforming most everythig else. If I had only a small viewing area and the weight wasn't a problem, that's what I'd get. The HD models will also accept 720p and 1080i.

But getting to the modern ligher and larger stuff, if you can afford a Pioneer Kuro, that would be the way to go. But of course, it would not be new since Pioneer got out of that business. Other than that, most of the rest of them are pretty routine, with Panasonic and Sharp Aquos tending to rise to the top, IMO.

But if you go for one of the routine Plasma or LED/LCD models, the ONE MAIN SUGGESTION I have would be to go with a video HD up-convertor, and either a DVDO or Hitachi AVC01U or AVC08U. I personally prefer the Hitachi because it will take standard video with the audio and convert it to HDMI, your choice of 720p/1080i or 1080p, carrying the audio with it, plus it has an optical audio out for your amp, if you wish. Plus it has the aspect ratio control for 4:3 with curtains or zooming letterboxed video, etc.

The upside is that the Hitachi can often be bought for less than $100, and the downside is you have to also get the Hitachi ultra-thin TV remote to operate it properly.

Well, that's my several hundred word opinion...

[Alchemy]

Several hundred words, BUT they say something, so that is important.

From what I've been reading, everything is built to a price point, just like a bicycle. For $500 you get x but trade y, on this brand you get a better y and trade off a lesser x.
So essentially get what looks best to *me* with the features I would actually use. I don't care about 3d, web browsers and apps..... I want a friggin tv
_________________
Scott
SGT-200, CLD-79
http://bcw.utnij.net <--- CED/LD collection

[Rixrex]

Yes, that's true, get what looks best to you with features you want and affordable. I'd really check out the want ads or craigslist for Pioneer Kuro plasma sets as they will be used but probably a better value for your money than something new. But you also have to consider a couple of things, such as room size and light ambience.

Most new sets are set to specs that look good in the bright TV showroom and are inappropriate in most peoples' viewing rooms. Also they are set to display well the DVD format and so LDs/CEDs/VCRs may tend to look odd. So then you'd want a set where you'd use different inputs and be able to control their separate values. Quite often, newer sets lack more than one composite/s-video connect, so that can be problematic with us legacy videophiles who need more than one. Either the DVDO or Hitachi enhancer can solve this problem, or a switcher can somewhat.

Also, you need a set that is right for your room size or viewing distance. I found my 64" Pioneer too big for my new home when I set it up the way I wanted to, and so I had to move it to a more distant spot where I'd see it comfortably but still I'm not too crazy about it's location right now. It needed a distance of 10 ft or more to view nicely! A set that looks just fine in a big display room might be oversized for your room. Personally, I wouldn't go less than 50", but that's my preference. You might be happy with 42" or thereabouts.

[Alchemy]

We currently have a 50", so I'm not going smaller than that. Where we have it now it is about 13' from the couch, If I put it on the other wall we'd be around 17'- so space isn't the issue.

I do have an NEC AVX910 that I can run several video sources through (in theory). Right now it's exclusively audio.
_________________
Scott
SGT-200, CLD-79
http://bcw.utnij.net <--- CED/LD collection

[Beetlescott]

Well I have to agree that the CEDs look better on a smaller screen. I use my Plasma TV where I stay most of the time. I put the SJT300 player downstairs with my 32" TV, and I was quite impressed with the picture.
_________________
1000 titles
SGT-250
SJT-400
Montgomery Ward
SGT-100

[Rixrex]

That's usually true for most of the lower resolution video sources, but I just got done viewing the CED of TRON on my 64" pioneer and at about 10-12 ft from the screen, it looked really nice. So I think the quality of the set can make a difference too. This is a Pioneer 64" elite CRT rear projection set with 3D comb filter and automatic progressive scan, what Pioneer calls PureCinema.

Also, the CEDs look superb on our Sony XBR 34" as well, but also fine on a Sharp Aquos 42" we have. Perhaps it's something about the CRT in the the sets thast are CRTs that make the CED look good?

Anyway, I really would opt for the Pioneer Kuros if you find one that's affordable, and the 50" or more. I think they went up to 60", not sure. The only other model I'd look for personally would be a Panasonic Professionsl model, pricey and not easy to locate, or a Panasonic 54" or 58" plasma set.

We just watch movies too, no cable or satellite, but we did get a digital TV antenna and even though we're 80 miles from Los Angeles, we get over 60 different broadcast TV channels, all looking as good as any cable picture.

[deantjeep]

CRTs definitely provide a nicer picture given the limits of the CED resolution.

If I were to be in the market for a new TV, it would probably be an LED since they are lighter, thinner and the LEDs provide the light source, unlike an LCD TV which is actually backlit. I suppose it would be hard to say what would work best for viewing CEDs. I used to have a 36 inch Toshiba CRT and the CEDs looked great, also the screen was 4:3 ratio which matches the CEDs. I think the real key to matching a TV to CED is really the distance that you will be viewing your movies. The further away you sit, the clearer the pictur will be. So, I would judge the size of the screen by the distance you are from the TV. I would guess that on a 50 inch TV, you should be sitting at least 8 feet from it, 10 would be even better. TVs any larger, you probably need at least 12 to 15 feet.

We sit about 8 feet away from our 52 inch LCD and CEDs look OK, would be clearer if we could move our couch about another 2 feet or so.

[Rixrex]

If your set is a 52" widescreen and you view the 4:3 CED with the side curtains used, then it's basically the equivalent of a 43" standard or 4:3 TV set. Still pretty big compared to a 36" but not terribly bigger.

To find this equivalency, you can take your widescreen diagonal size and subtract 12% of it, and that gives you the 4:3 diagonal size, very closely anyway.

Estimating widescreen size (1.78 to 1) on a 4:3 set (black bars at top and bottom, take the 4:3 diagonal and subtract 14% of it, and that gets you very close to the widescreen equivalent in viewing area. Of course films in 2.35 format would be even narrower.

For example, a 36" 4:3 set would give you equivalent viewing area of a 31" widescreen set. Biggest 4:3 set I ever saw was the CRT rear projection 60" Phillips that was 1080i capable. It gave a widescreen view of about 52" which is pretty good, but then the 4:3 image was gigantic! Must have been meant for rooms more than 15' across.

[7jlong]

One small bit of advice: I worried endlessly about the upconvert problem before I bought a new TV. There is a lot of discussion out there about having a dedicated scan converter between your older device and a newer TV.

But I would give it a try first. Onboard comb filters have come a long way (in my experience). Connect your player directly to the composite video or coaxial input first before laying out the cash for a converter. If you are pleased with the results, you're good to go. If you think there's room for improvement, purchase one with a lenient return policy and see how it goes.

[Rixrex]

Yes, that's good advice. On a newer LCD set we have I did not find much difference at all when I ran my LD/CED/VHS players through the composite vs using my three hundred dollar DVDO.

However, I did find a difference when I used my $50 Hitachi AVC upconvertor that processed both audio and video to 1080p HDMI. The cheaper unit did the better job.

Plus it makes a great switcher since these newer sets seem to have only one composie video input anymore.

[Xian]

Personally I'm in favor of a dedicated big screen(4:3 screen) for the VHS,CED,LD. But that's just me. I have the 'mancave' set up with all the old school toys. All the HDMI/bluray/DVD gets the living room. I like to keep the two centuries apart from each other.
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The Reason A Dog Has So Many Friends, He Wags His Tail Instead Of His Tongue.

[Beetlescott]

[Xian]

Yes, I've heard that before. Maybe if you got one of those upconverters, it would look better on your plasma.

I rather enjoy the limitations of the CED and VHS formats on an old TV.
_________________
The Reason A Dog Has So Many Friends, He Wags His Tail Instead Of His Tongue.

[Beetlescott]

I don't understand what you mean by upconverter. The players I have on my plasma have RCA cables. Are you referring to the Zenith?
_________________
1000 titles
SGT-250
SJT-400
Montgomery Ward
SGT-100

[Xian]

[Beetlescott]

OH OK, Thanks!
I wonder if these up converters relly work? I can't understand (with my non tech brain) how it could make a difference? I mean the only way to connect this still has to go through the coaxial cable, right?
_________________
1000 titles
SGT-250
SJT-400
Montgomery Ward
SGT-100

[Xian]

Ya know Scott, I dunno??? I'm sure some of these other guys know exactly what an upconverter does. But I don't. I've got a DVD player that says it upconverts the DVDs it plays. I'd actually have to read the manual to get the specifics. I'd say give a shout out to Rixrex, he seems very knowledgeable about that stuff.
_________________
The Reason A Dog Has So Many Friends, He Wags His Tail Instead Of His Tongue.

[Rixrex]

I saw the topic here and decided to put in my 2 cents on it since I also have a bunch of those upconverters on the classifieds. My experience has been with both the DVDO brand, which are great, and this Hitachi model I currently use.

I got into them years ago because I have a 64" Pioneer elite widscreen CRT rear projection set that had light gray side curtains (annoying) and would show significant scan lines when I zoomed the letterboxed LDs, and I wanted to get away from these problems.

The unpconvertors take the analog video signal and change it into a digital signal. Depending upon the circuitry, they do such things as practically eliminate dot crawl, diminish jagged edges, reduce rainbow effect and color bleeding, eliminate the 3:2 pulldown shudder effect, etc. They can also take the digitized signal and give it a wide variety of aspect ratio choices while maintaining the same scan line resolution.

I started with the DVDO models, first one was the Ultra, which upped the signal to 480p, and also gave me a choice of black or several shades of sidecurtains, and also took the letterboxed LDs, cut off the black bars and squeezed the image to match anamorphic DVDs. This eliminated the visible scan lines. Then I moved up to the much more expensive HD model, that could convert to 720 or 1080. Then finally to the Hitachi which did the same, but converted to digital HDMI and also had the added feature of piping the audio through as well, or letting you use its optical audio output.

If you use one of these you may notice improvement in regards to the stuff I mentioned above, but you also have the added benefit of using the device as a switcher as well. Especially nice since many sets now seem to have only one video input. What I've noticed is that my LDs look as good as standard DVDs with no DVD artifacting or halo effect, and the CEDs and VHS are improved nicely as well, and I'm talking specifically about viewing them on a Plasma or LED/LCD set, not the older CRT sets. The best things are the near elimination of jaggies and dot crawl. But still none of these formats upconverted can match the actual HD DVD or Blu Ray Discs regardless, though the standard DVDs come awfully close now using the Hitachi model.