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Help with Hitachi CED

 
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pellio



Joined: 20 Apr 2017
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:34 am    Post subject: Help with Hitachi CED Reply with quote

Hi,

I have just bought an Hitachi CED player and am having some difficulties - I wondered if you could help.

The first time i used it it was perfect, I played an old disc and it played it all the way through.

Then I played a disc that kept skipping. I stopped the disc and bought a sealed one from Ebay.

The first 30 minutes were fine then the sound deteriorated and the picture skipped. I reset it and the first part (which was fine at first) was now unplayable. I reset and it was the same.

I am guessing it must be the stylus but if anyone else has ideas it would be appreciated.

Thanks

Paul
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kitchensynch



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 829

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could be a few things. A bad belt is a probable one or a gear out of place.. I hope you did not expose the CED to the open air or touch it, that is what the caddies are there for, to protect the fragile groove. A CED groove is really tiny and not the same as a phonograph record. Instead of a wiggly cut in the disc it is and up and down affair and both aspects make it far more susceptible to damage from handling.

Here is a really good episode of Oddity Archive on You Tube that highlights CEDs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1f9J2q_fOk

This guy is your go-to geek, my favorite is still the episode on the Dumont Television Network, and he has a lot of fun with the Emergency Alert System as a running joke. His humor is an art form.

Our own Jesse Skeen has one of his videos excepted in this series too.
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pellio



Joined: 20 Apr 2017
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Thanks for your reply/ No, the disc was straight out of the cellophane.

The odd thing that I can't understand is that the disc was fine, then it deteriorated, then when I reset it, the parts that initially played ok were skipping and fuzzy.

I think it must be the player rather than the dis,c so I suppose it can only be the stylus or the belts.

Paul
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kitchensynch



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 829

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The parent site (ditch the rest after the .com/) will have some tips on maintenance, seeing as how you aren't going to find many people who service them anymore. And if the skipping isn't random, happens in about the same places, it's likely the belts because if the needle were bad it would be a general mess.

Never toss the cartridge, they can be retipped like some audiophile needles, Cedatum does that. They are busy sometimes and occasionally temporarily stop taking on work.

All of this is on the parent site.

Now, did you try other discs to see if they did the same thing? If they don't then it could be a defective disc...it happens. Depending on the title you can probably find another, new or not, that does work.
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dumbchemist



Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Posts: 314
Location: Central New York

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An FYI:

Cedatum does not rebuild Hitachi cartridges anymore. The parts are unavailable. They will clean and evaluate any old ones.

If you think it is the cartridge, you will have to find another one on E-bay. They do not show up very often so you may have a long wait. I paid $90 for a new cartridge in 1986 so you will have to pay some dollars to get one.
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pellio



Joined: 20 Apr 2017
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Thanks for the info.

As luck would have it I found a 'new' oldstock one on ebay.

I will report back in case it helps anyone when it arrives.
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kitchensynch



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 829

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should say that Rixrex had a method of temporarily bolstering the belts with an O-ring? It helped the tracking and eliminated much of the skipping.
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jsdspif



Joined: 16 Jan 2016
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to mention it but I wouldn't get real high hopes on the new old stock cartridge working. I believe it's the flylead that sometimes "disintegrates" over time?? Might be better off just getting a RCA player.
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pellio



Joined: 20 Apr 2017
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

You may be right. I am in the UK and the options are limited here. I will try the replacement stylus and see if I can get new belts. If it does not work I may give up on the CED format.

kitchensynch:
After some further tries it seems like the problem happens randomly but when it starts I get complete disintergration of picture and sound.

1) The sound starts to go.
2) Then the picture skips.
3) Then everything goes - tracking, picture etc.

Sometimes, if i then reset and play again it will work for 10 minutes then happens again in a place that was previously ok.

It could easily be belts I guess.

I also have the original repair manual and suggestions checking the stylus cleaner. However I am not sure what this is.
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dumbchemist



Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Posts: 314
Location: Central New York

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you think that belts are the problem, go to

http://www.cedmagic.com/home/products.html.

You wiill have to check your player's model and compare it to the chart. You maybe lucky and can make a match. Ordering instructions are listed.
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CLD-D406, CLD-980.
MDP-600, MDP-MR1.
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dmbjunky



Joined: 23 Jan 2017
Posts: 85
Location: Odon, IN

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unopened sealed discs aren't necessarily like new either. They are still 30 years old and who knows how they've been stored over the years. They could've been at the bottom of a big stack.

May be best to get another player to see if it's the disc or player.
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kitchensynch



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 829

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pellio wrote:
Hi,

You may be right. I am in the UK and the options are limited here. I will try the replacement stylus and see if I can get new belts. If it does not work I may give up on the CED format.

kitchensynch:
After some further tries it seems like the problem happens randomly but when it starts I get complete disintergration of picture and sound.

1) The sound starts to go.
2) Then the picture skips.
3) Then everything goes - tracking, picture etc.

Sometimes, if i then reset and play again it will work for 10 minutes then happens again in a place that was previously ok.

It could easily be belts I guess.

I also have the original repair manual and suggestions checking the stylus cleaner. However I am not sure what this is.


I think I just caught what is the possible problem>...

You said you are in the UK...

Is your player a US version or UK?

Difference in mains, yes but especially in analog systems.

AS IN PAL VS NTSC.

NTSC: 525 scanning lines, 60 Hz/cycles per second (for color actually a fraction less as I recall for compatibility with black and white), AM video, FM sound, video first.

PAL: 625 scanning lines and not al all like NTSC. PAL stands for Phase Alternaing/ed Lines and at 50 Hz there are differences in speed and scanning.

Now, modern digital TVs should also be able to play PAL, NTSC or both to be fully compatible with most world TV systems. Most analog systems worldwide have been a form on PAL, NTSC, SECAM (Field alternating I believe) or CCIR (think Russian). Digital is replacing many of these but not all are gone and there are different systems of digital TV.

The thing I want to know is really the country/system the player and discs were designed for, much less the TV you use to view them.

Since parts of the UK use 220V 50 HZ mains if you use a US player you are already using a stepdown transformer to change that to ~110-120V and you need to make certain that is also at 60 Hertz or the US player will not be running at the right speed or may also scan incorrectly. Always try to match your voltage and mains line frequency for best results.

It's easier to adjust for the difference in scanning lines, color will probab ly be loot in the translation but you can watch US and UK discs with some adjustments.
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pellio



Joined: 20 Apr 2017
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

The player was produced for the UK and the discs are PAL. The TV I am using can handle both PAL and NTSC as I played NTSC laserdiscs and DVDs through it as well as all the PAL ones.

One thing I found that works is: when the deterioration starts to happen, I stop, reset, take the sytlus out, wave it around a bit, put it back in then scan up to the point it stopped. It seems to sort the problem.

Doing this 3 times meant I could watch a 2 hour film.
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kitchensynch



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 829

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm betting that is sort of like the 'blow in you Nintendo cartridge' trick...I'm saying that it sounds more like the carriage isn't moving well etc more than the needle is flaky.

(Blowing in the end of your old NES game cart was thought by users to fix a bad load but it's more likely that the contacts were slightly oxidized or made a poor fit in the slot).
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dmbjunky



Joined: 23 Jan 2017
Posts: 85
Location: Odon, IN

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a player where the magnet that held the cartridge in place was loose. If you took the cartridge out, the magnet would come with.
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RCA PGR100WR TV
RCA SFT-100, SGT-200, SGT-250, SJT-300, SJT-400
Zenith VP2000
RCA MTR-225
A lot of discs
...and growing
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pellio



Joined: 20 Apr 2017
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,

Just small update,a thank you and some info that may help UK CED owners.

So, my old new stylus arrived. It cost 55 (around $75) and was the only I could find in the world literally. It just so happened to be on ebay at time.

I installed it and the disc played perfectly all the way through. The sound was vastly improved, no picture break- up and the stability of the picture was noticeably better. It looks like then it was stylus, at least until it goes wrong again.

So thanks again for all your input, hopefully it will work for a while now.
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SelectaVision420



Joined: 25 Mar 2012
Posts: 1280
Location: Hartford

PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pellio wrote:
Hi All,

Just small update,a thank you and some info that may help UK CED owners.

So, my old new stylus arrived. It cost 55 (around $75) and was the only I could find in the world literally. It just so happened to be on ebay at time.

I installed it and the disc played perfectly all the way through. The sound was vastly improved, no picture break- up and the stability of the picture was noticeably better. It looks like then it was stylus, at least until it goes wrong again.

So thanks again for all your input, hopefully it will work for a while now.


make sure from now on, no matter what, if you never played the disc before, check it first. i have had a lot of duds in mint caddies, and vice-versa...
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